Who Is Sid Krommenhoek?
Sid Krommenhoek is a gem of a human being. He has an incredible passion for life and people and has used that passion to build a tech company that he sold for over $50 million. He then founded a VC firm that is currently helping future entrepreneurs bring their dreams to reality.
Sid also has incredible compassion and empathy for those suffering from mental illness after losing his brother due to mental illness.
Through it all, Sid has learned that relationships matter most to him, and he promotes goodness wherever he goes. Hope you enjoy this podcast!
Sid Krommenhoek is a real example of hard work and determination when in the business and investment world. Here is a look at his life in recent years, and the steps that he has taken to get to where he is today.
Education and entrepreneurial spirit
His entrepreneurial spirit was honed at Brigham Young University (BYU) in Provo, Utah, where he completed an undergraduate degree in business management. Prior to his studies he worked as a volunteer missionary for his faith for two years, a credit to his determination and setting him on path for success and hard work. As a student, he learned how to juggle studies with self-funding his education and took his first steps toward being an entrepreneur. When Sid was at BYU, he launched and successfully ran, alongside his talented co-founders, his first two startups.
As a student Sid played varsity basketball and contributed as a walk-on guard at the 1998 WAC conference champion basketball team at the University of Utah, before transferring to BYU. This was all done while maintaining a perfect grade-point average,and working part-time in order to be able to fund his education himself.
Career
Prior to a career in venture capital, Sid co-founded four startups, including Zinch.com in 2006, which was a venture-backed online portal helping to connect students all around the world with opportunities within higher education settings. Later he led Zinch’s growth into China with the launch of Zinch.cn. This was one of the first foreign online brands to really grow and launch to a great scale in China. In 2011 Zinch was acquired by Chegg, Inc. Sid led Chegg’s international efforts through an initial public offering in 2013.
Sid is currently founder and general partner at Album VC, formerly known as Peak Ventures, which helps entrepreneurs to make their dreams a reality. Knowing just how volatile the venture capital world can be, and how capital has become such a commodity and how accountability can be at risk, he knows just how important it is to have a point of view. Working with his partners, he has learned some lessons along the venture capital journey.
Sid knows and understands that a little luck can go a long way and also that having some deep and meaningful connections, where accountability is high, is much more powerful than having a larger but more shallow network to work with. Sid has said in the past that he is naturally drawn to working with tight-knit teams, learning to navigate the crazy landscape that so often comes along with new ventures of this type.
The approach that Album VC takes is to collaborate with bright young minds in order to shape the future of technology. Their approach is a result of the partners’ own startups, as well as the venture capital that has been raised and the experiences that have come from working with venture capitalists.
Other work experience comes from working as a board member for a variety of US-based companies, locate around the country. These range from Transfer, Inc., in New York City, to Podium, helping customers easily leave reviews on sites like Yelp and Google.
Personal life
Alongside a successful career in venture capitalism, Sid is raising four children. He also has incredible compassion and empathy for people suffering from mental illness. This comes as a result of losing his brother due to mental illness, and this reflects in a lot of his work and in his management style. Through all of his life and work, Sid has learned that relationships are the things that matter most to him, and it is evident in how he runs a business. That is why even in his current role with Album VC, he knows just how important people are and just how important accountability and reputation are. People who know Sid well know that he promotes goodness wherever he goes and in the work that he does.
Sid Krommenhoek Podcast Transcription
Charan: All right, I am rolling, and I’m with some extremely handsome gentlemen, Sid Krommenhoek and Derek Miner. Thank you guys so much for joining us on this incredible Lemonade Stand podcast that we’re doing. Now, just so you guys are aware, this is an awesome opportunity, whoever is listening, to hear the beginnings of people’s lemonade stand stories, how they first got into business, to begin with, why they got into business, to begin with, their struggles, their failures, their reasons to keep going after they’ve fallen a couple of times. Anyway, it’s been awesome.
Charan: And, Sid, I’ve known for a while now. We actually were MTC teachers. We both taught Chinese at the MTC. Sid looks like Jesus, and that might have been why they hired him. And for the MTC, they’re like, “Ah, we don’t have enough Indian–Chinese people teachers, so we’ve got to hire Charan.” We met back in the day.
Charan: And Derek, I just recently met Derek, but apparently, Derek and Sid have known each other for years and years, so I thought it’d be great for all of us to join together and to have an awesome discussion on the world of business. But yeah, thanks so much, guys, for joining. This is going to be awesome. Sid, let’s talk a little bit about your beginnings into the world of business. I mean, when we talk about the lemonade stand story, we refer to the time when you were a child, and you were like, “Alright, I want to make 10 cents today. I don’t have any teeth that I’m missing, so I can’t count on the tooth fairy. I’m going to go out and proactively get some money, and I’m going to make some lemonade because that’s what everyone does.”
Charan: So we make lemonade, he goes down to the corner, and usually, no one drives by. Or else, we’re in a too busy intersection, and no one can stop and care. And you go home dejected thinking, “I made a lot of lemonade, and I’m going to drink it all by myself as I wipe away my tears.” But that’s the beginning of a lemonade stand story. Right?
Sid Krommenhoek Talks About His Entrepreneurial Start
Charan: What are your beginnings, Sid? What was the time when you were like, “I’m going to get into business, and I’m going to go for it?
Sid: Yeah. So I think it was incepted or implanted when I was a little bit younger. It was the summer after my junior year of high school. I went to this month-long … What’s the right word for it? It was this scholarship even for kids of black, Hispanic, or Native American background. I was raised by my mother. She’s full-blooded Mexican. And all it was, was introducing those groups of people in a university setting. This was at the University of Arizona, and you were with 50 other kids taking university classes. And then every night you would have dinners with CEOs who looked more like you in this case. So these were of diverse backgrounds.
Sid: And for me, where I grew up in Utah County, it’s predominantly white, and I don’t feel distanced from that. My father is white, but I was raised by my mom. But for the first time, it just put in front of me people, where I was like, “Oh, that’s an option.” Actually getting into it, I think, was more a function of just serendipity. I was a freshman at the University of Utah. I had an academic scholarship, so my agreement with my mom was, she would help me pay for my mission, my LDS mission, if I covered school. So that meant I just had to get scholarship and hold a job.
Sid: So I had an academic scholarship, and I had this job working shifts as a server at The Sizzler in Sugar House. But then there were sign-ups to walk on. They had two spots to walk onto the basketball team, and I went for it. I was a D2 athlete, but I thought, “What the heck?” So I walked on, I made it. And then practices were four-hour practices, and I had to keep my GPA to keep my scholarship, and then I still had to make enough money to pay for my rent. So it got tricky, so I did a couple of things.
Sid: One, I realized I couldn’t work as many hours because now I had practice, so I swapped with my boss, tickets. I got four tickets. Every athlete, we got four tickets to the game. And at the time, this was the year after the University of Utah went to the national championship, so everybody wanted to go. And our player tickets were good seats, so I would give my boss tickets if he would give me the best shifts, which were Friday night and Saturday night.
Charan: Rad, okay.
Sid: It wasn’t what I would call “lemonade stand”exactly, but it was in my like this, “I’ve got to figure something out because the math wouldn’t add up, because I didn’t have all the perks that the scholarship athletes have. An academic scholarship is different than an athletic scholarship. Athletic scholarship, you are hooked up with meals and everything. I was in a different class.
Charan: Dude, I loved that because you were forced in a limited circumstance, correct? You were like, “I’ve got to figure something out.” And I love that’s the way business even entered into your mind. I don’t have the luxuries of everything. And it’s funny because you were talking about basketball. I’m guessing you probably played in high school and then you went on.
Sid: Yeah.
Charan: I was actually on a high school basketball team.
Sid: Cool.
Charan: I’d give water to the other players.
Sid: Yes!
Charan: Anyway, the point is, I love the fact that you were in the circumstance of limitation and thinking, “I’ve got to figure something out.” And I think that’s a great place for you to launch into something. So anyway, keep going. This is so fascinating.
Sid: It gets better, and there’s enough time that’s passed so I can fess up to someone. So then we have our first game, and this is a really good team. We win, and we went undefeated that season. This was back when it was called the WAC, the Western Athletic Conference that we played in.
Sid: So we win our first game, and they’re like, “Alright, man, shower up and get ready. We’re going out.” I’m like, “Oh, cool.” I get to hang out with these guys, who are my idols. And we drive to Wendover. And we go to Wendover, and I’m 17 years old. I’m fresh out of high school. They walk me up to the blackjack tables, and they introduce me to a guy named Buddy. And they go, “Buddy, here’s Sid.” Buddy shakes my hand. They go, “Buddy’s the pit boss.”
Sid: Buddy issues me a player’s card, and what that means is anytime I give Buddy a phone call, this was before cellphones, he would have a free room and $40.00 in meal comps if I’m coming to this particular casino.
Charan: Dude, he truly is your buddy.
[crosstalk 00:08:44]
Derek: Best friends.
Charan: Yeah.
Sid: So then I sit at the table with all these guys, and they all teach me how to gamble, specifically blackjack. And this is like I’m taking $20.00 and making it work on $20.00. But when you play with your friends, the minimum hand is a dollar. You can play for a long time if you’re playing with your buddies, and you’re all playing the same, not to get too into the weeds. So there’s that experience.
Sid: What that turns into … I’m working as a waiter and they tip you with, they leave dollar bills on your table. Right? So after a good weekend, I’ve got a couple of hundred bucks of ones and maybe some fives, a stack. And so it crosses my mind, I’m like, “I just learned how to play blackjack,” so I buy a bunch of chips from a Walmart, or the equivalent, or whatever it was. I buy a deck of cards, and on my dorm room floor, I go, “Hey, anybody want to play blackjack? I’m the house.”
Sid: And I start this blackjack table. And every weekend you’ve got all these freshmen, a lot of them from Utah, but many of them from out of state, some from out of country, who are like, “Sure.” So we all play, and I’m the house, and the house always wins. So it turned into a way to pad my tips.
Sid: And I’ll tell you the best story was this. We had this kid. Oh, I can’t remember his name. He hits a half-court shot. He gets chosen out of the audience when we’re playing a game. He sinks a half-court shot, and he wins a brand new Volkswagen bug. This was when Volkswagen came out with their new, that funky looking bug. He wins it, and he immediately sells it, pays the taxes, and he has, by college student standards, a lot of money.
Sid: So every time we would see him in the hall, I’d be like, “Hey, man, come play.” And he would be totally fine with losing money because 10 bucks to him … It was awesome, and I always view it as that’s my meal ticket. I need him to come and play.
Derek: Your other best friend.
Sid: Yeah.
Charan: Dude, that’s amazing. Buddy and the dude that won the Volkswagen, those guys save you.
Sid: They did, they did.
Charan: That’s amazing. So how long did this go for?
Sid: This is my freshman year of college. This was that entire year. I mean, I had a tremendous journey just watching and being around these athletes who became … to this day … I was talking to one day who’s working on his business, remained friends. One of them is an assisting coach at Utah Jazz. Another one played in the NBA past 40 years old, Andre Miller. I mean, just stellar guys.
Sid: And I continued with the blackjack all through the years, so it was the gift that kept giving. So that was my freshman year. After that, I went on an LDS mission. We met each other. I no longer was running a blackjack ring. I mean, that’s a strong term. I wouldn’t call it a blackjack ring.
Charan: I’ll tell you what, man. I feel like I missed out. I wish you’d done that in the MTC with the MTC futures. That would have been my journey now. I would have learned your secrets. Dude, that’s amazing, though. The thing was, it’s interesting that you learned principles of business doing that. And like you said, the house always wins, even though I don’t fully understand all the rules. The fact that you understood, “Hey, in a limited circumstance, how do I need to get out of this situation?” Right?
Sid: Well, and I think I would even say with my kids now, to be honest, maybe the most important part of that whole thing, which I didn’t grow as much into, was being a server. Working in a service industry is invaluable. My base wage was like $2.00 an hour because they know that you’re going to make it all up in tips. And minimum wage was probably then, I don’t know, seven, eight bucks, I’m not sure exactly. But as a server, they could pay you less because of the tips. And I don’t know the legality of that, but that was how it was.
Sid: Every day was predicated on, even days when you’re really tired, you’re not feeling great, showing up with a smile, keeping track of your table. We’ve all had a great server. We’ve had the bad server, but think about the best server you’ve had where you’re like, “Who is this person?” They’re just cheery. I remember a day getting a $20.00 tip, and I just thought … It pumps you up. It makes you want to fight for that tip.
Sid: And so for my kids, and even when I’m thinking of entrepreneurship, I don’t know, there’s something more simple than just learning … Working in a service industry, you come to appreciate. I’ll forever appreciate anybody in a blue-collar type job who’s washing dishes, or waiting tables, or changing your oil. That stuff never goes out of style, and we live in a time where some gaps in prosperity are getting bigger. It’s really important at a most basic level for people on both ends to understand one another, to realize we all, for the most part, breathe the same.
Sid: And so I find that it informs, now as a venture capitalist, and certainly with each of the startups I participate in. At the most basic level, you’re delivering a product or a service in a way that people want to try it again, especially in a day and age where we are reviews-driven in how we consume, whether it’s something on Amazon or even local business. You’re going to get on Google Reviews and see who gives the best service. Right?
Charan: I love that.
Derek: I just want to-
Sid Krommenhoek Talks About Who Inspires Him
Derek: [crosstalk 00:14:34] for just a second. Who inspires you the most? Because you were talking about all these people who do work that make our economy go, those who may not get recognized and don’t get praised, who are setting up their lemonade stand somewhere and hoping people show up. Who inspires you the most, Sid?
Sid: Yeah. I’ll tell you. There is this woman. I have not been able to find her since she no longer works there, but these are the type of people. I went to a test… What’s it called? OfficeMax one time, and I just go to get something printed. And I’m telling you, this woman lit … She had this crazy amount of humor and customer service, and she made such an impression with me.
Sid: I’ve since gone back. I have never found her. I may never find her. But it’s a type of person where now, in my position where I see, and I’m an investor in all these companies, I’m like, “Any company needs her. Every company needs her. You have these people who just for reasons far more than making a wage, building wealth, all these things that usually dot entrepreneurship like wealth creation and scalability, dude, there is some stuff that is so much more basic than that, especially right now when we’re …
Sid: Me and my wife went on our first date again, ate outside, were hesitant taking off the masks. It felt special, and I can guarantee you don’t even have to be that good of a server nowadays. We’re just delighted to be in the presence of other humans again. But people like that, man, and there’s probably a handful of them that I could … She’s one, in particular, I just admire so deeply somebody who probably would even turn her nose up at me being like, “I could find you a job in a technology industry.” And she’d be like, “I get to meet with people all day and help print stuff.” You know what I mean? I don’t know, but there’s some charm to that.
Charan: Dude, I love what you were saying, even just service with a smile. Right? I never have worked as a server before, but I was a bellman, and I would work for tips. I worked at the local theater on Sundance for years. And the truth was, I definitely did not do that job for the money because you were not making that much money. But, man, the experiences that I had with the people that I interacted with was invaluable.
Charan: I met some of the coolest people and just got to learn firsthand what makes them tick and how they were able to grow. And so I don’t know, I loved the fact that you said that this woman in OfficeMax just had such a joy exude from her. Right? And it created all these cool, special memories. And it made you think, “I cannot wait to go back and meet up with her again,” if ever that was the case. Right?
Sid: But you two are like that too. So honestly, I’ve-
Derek: [crosstalk 00:17:54]
Sid: No. Neither of you are ever … Even if you had a hard day, you’d probably be like … Derek, I will say to people, I’ll be like, “Oh, you’ll love Derek.” And I guarantee somewhere in the conversation … Watch, I could do it. I could have a buddy and be like, “Just listen in on my phone call.” And at some point, Derek would say, “You’re such a stud.” He loves to say that. He loves to say, “You’re such a stud.”
Charan: He said that to me earlier.
Sid: He did, didn’t he? He did.
Charan: He did, he did.
Sid: He always does that. But Derek doesn’t … It’s probably habit, but that’s just how he is. He just can’t not brighten. And Charan, you’re the same way. You just always have a joke or something that’s either self-deprecating, and you can have fun with yourself. Even your Indian heritage, you can have fun with it in an appropriate way.
Sid: We live in a time that has its own divisiveness. I don’t look at it as an evil time. I don’t look at it as a horrible time. I look at it as a time where it’s all that much more beautiful when people can just lend a smile. And that, even when we talk about the pinnacles of success, I guarantee all of us know people who have made plenty of money but are really sad. Some things fuel our inner happiness far more than others. We’ve got to be careful with entrepreneurship on end-goal.
Sid: Yes, be a capitalist. Go for it. Give it all. But I promise you, in that journey, there’s going to be something else, some unexpected things that you actually come to find are far more important than the whole process.
Charan: Well, I think it’s sad when I’ve met people that have achieved all their dreams, what they’ve set out to do as far as career only to realize that career, that dream, never ended up making them happy because they missed the more valuable lessons of service, of connecting with people and all that stuff. And I think it’s just such an important lesson to learn, and it’s awesome that from an early age, you already were learning it as a server or as a blackjack dealer.
Charan: But no, I think it’s amazing to hear that you’ve learned all of these cool things, and now you’re able to spread it. And Sid, I want to talk a little about this too, but I remember … I have a company, and you let us come and pitch to you guys a couple of times. And it’s just so cool, dude. When we come in and we pitch to you guys, it’s so non-stressful. It’s just so relaxed, and it was just super casual. And we were just like buddies hanging out talking, talking about our ideas, talking about our dreams. And I love it.
Charan: I think the fact that, as an actor, when I go in and I audition, whenever the casting director is super relaxed and chill, I always give a way better performance.
Sid: Better, yep.
Charan: I always do. That’s just how it is. But if that casting director is really stern and stuff, I get nervous. Pitch meetings for Amazon, when I pitched TV shows there, the people that I pitched to, super-duper chill. They’re just so relaxed, and it was so easy to talk about the show you wanted to pitch. Right?
Charan: So that really goes to show that you have a certain personality that you’ve developed over the years that has made it easy for the startup guy to say, “Hey, I want to pitch to you guys.”
[crosstalk 00:21:19]
Sid Krommenhoek Talks About the Things That Have Helped Him in His Journey
Derek: And that’s the thing about Sid, too, just like you said, that your demeanor is the same thing. It’s like, “Hey, come talk to me.” Super approachable in that way. One of the things that I wanted to ask, too, Sid, are there resources that have really helped you in your journey as you think back from when you started to where you’re at now?
Sid: Yeah, great question. It sounds like my AirPods are going out. Let me take them out so it doesn’t cut out midstream.
Derek: Okay.
Sid: Do you have audio from me? Can you hear me okay?
Derek: Yeah.
Sid: Yeah, okay. Perfect. I mean, I would say more than anything else, it was people in my path. I don’t know what everybody else’s experience is. I’ve certainly had my share of maybe who wasn’t there. I was raised by my mom. But when I think of co-founders, I wouldn’t have started a startup had it not been for my wife foremost, who was encouraging, and my good buddy Brad Hagan, who was that true zeitgeist.
Sid: I’m more of a follower and a rallier of the total zealot who’ll go after something. I wouldn’t call myself the pure leader zealot. So I could tell you from when I was eight to when I was … I could tell you from when I was a little kid, a specific person. I could tell you when I was at the University of Utah, and I remember a specific time where things could have gone very differently in my life, and somebody put their arm around me. I could tell you, in my startup, I could tell you, my wife, 100 times over the journey.
Sid: And I could tell you right now. I could tell you today somebody who I texted for advice, who’s willing to give of themselves and sincerely cares about my success, not in a professional sense, though I’m sure they do, but as a human. And so those people that were just … I like to say that I was just thrown into the orbit of great people. I don’t know if I was riding on a solo orbit, what it would even look like. I’m sure it would maybe be okay. I think I have some natural interests and good tendencies. But those people whose orbit I’ve just fell into have massively defined how I’ve gone about my life.
Charan: Dude, you give collaboration the energy there. Right? It wasn’t all you. You relied on other people. They came into your life. You helped them. They helped you. It’s awesome. And that’s what makes you a true team player. Right? You listen to other people. You understand your strengths, and yeah, “Okay.” Like Brad Hagan, for instance, who is also a dear friend of mine. The fact that you guys will partner together and create something awesome is so great.
Sid Krommenhoek Talks About the Struggles He’s Faced
Charan: I do want to ask, though, every journey has its struggles. And you say everything was smooth sailing and we all lived happily ever after. There are times of struggles, and there’s times of trials. What have been some of the things that you’ve faced that have been debilitating or made you fall for a little bit? How were you able to get out of it?
Sid: Yeah. This can go as personal as you want. I could talk to mental illness. I could talk to physical illness. Both of them have hit me in personal ways. Is there any preference you have?
Charan: No, I don’t. I will say this you, guys, according to the Zoom call thing, I’ve got nine minutes, so let’s talk. And if you don’t mind, I can restart it again if we’re really going deep. I want to hear it all, dude. I want to hear whatever you feel, because here’s the deal: the experiences that you’ve had in your struggles, either with mental illness or with physical illness, this affects it. And I want this to be something that can truly inspire the younger generation, so please, dig deep. And if you don’t mind, if we have to pause, I’ll stop it, and then I will re-invite in and we’ll continue if that’s okay.
Sid: Yeah. Yeah, I would classify how I thought of-
Charan: Oh, shoot. Hang on. We lost Sid. Oh, wait. Sid, are you there?
Sid: Am I back?
Charan: Yeah.
Sid: Sorry, somebody tried to call on my phone, and it came through my iPad here. I would classify how I approach stuff as your classical tough-it-out type of approach. And so when I was younger, if you would have talked to me about depression, I probably would have said, “Dude, just power through it. Go work out. Do something.”
Sid: But in 2007, we were building my last startup. That was with Brad, called Zinch. And I remember I was in my office in downtown Provo, and I get a call from my mom saying, “Your brother is missing.” My brother grew up with depression, severe, took medication. He was at the University of Utah at the time. He was a few credits away from graduating with a degree in political science. He was in the best physical shape of his life. He was preparing. He was going into the military, then he wanted to go to law school.
Sid: So we were working out, so physically strong, mentally super bright. But what I didn’t know is he had taken himself off his medication, had started self-medicating with alcohol. And so that call was a dark day. And me and my co-founders and our team, we then spent the next 48 hours searching for my brother and eventually found him. And he had taken his life. So it was hands-down, the most gut-wrenching day of my life.
Sid: I would call it… everything stopped. Nothing mattered. I remember going to my co-founders saying, “Hey, I’m done. My heart is broken. I have a permanent hole in it, and I just cannot think of anything that matters right now. I just want to …” Again, I was, I would say, more of a tough kid like don’t cry. I probably cried every day for a month, even when I went back to the office. My co-founders were actually cool. They were like, “Hey, dude, just take the time you need.”
Sid: I remember even going back in the office, a certain song could come on and immediately I would think of a concert I had been to with my brother. And I would just have to walk out. I’m this big guy lumbering down University Avenue in tears. I’m sure people were like, “What is wrong with this guy? Does he just get his heart broken by a girl every day?”
Sid: It was unbelievably just a state of despair. Since then, I have come to understand mental illness and depression. I’ve been able to be in the presence of those who have gone through similar loss and just be able to just say one thing, which is, “My heart aches for you.” That’s it. Not even try to go to, “Don’t worry. You’re going to get better. Don’t worry. Time will heal. Don’t worry. You’re going to understand.” Just, “My heart aches for you, my brother or sister.” It is like a deep toothache in your heart that just will not go away.
Sid: And there’s been a lot of healing and perspective, and it’s a cause that I just care deeply about. And I miss my brother, but for reasons of faith and education, I feel so grateful for the time I had with him. And it puts in perspective something like a startup. Yeah, that was, I would say, hands-down the hardest thing I’ve experienced in life. Your personal life and your startup, you can’t turn one off. Unfortunately, when you’re building a startup, life continues.
Sid: So relationships, like, I was fortunate to have a wife who just had to basically hold me in all my weakness for a long time, and she loves my brother too. But that, for sure, is the absolute lowest low I’ve ever felt.
Charan: It’s so crazy because my brother has struggled a lot as well. His story is different. He’s doing so well right now. He’s-
Sid: Good.
[crosstalk 00:30:38]
Sid: What’s his name?
Charan: His name is [Serey 00:30:40]. He’s actually in the other room. He’s amazing. But he allowed, because of the pain in his heart, he was addicted to heroin for a long time. And there were many times that we were like, “Is he going to make it? I have no idea.” He went through rehab, and we thought that was going to help. And he got out of rehab and slipped back into it like a lot of people do.
Charan: But he was one of the fortunate ones, and he didn’t really have a religious belief or perspective. He wanted to believe, and I would talk to him. My faith is similar to your faiths, and I’d talk to him a lot about faith and God and everything. But somewhere or other, there was a shift that continued to his heart where he was like, “You know what? I am sick of this. I am sick of it. I need to go and change.”
Charan: So he went to rehab on his own and said, “I’m going to change.” And now, he actually works at rehabs, and he inspires other people. And just to see the shift between how he was before to now, it is nothing short of a miracle. But with that story, which is so hopeful and so positive, come the stories of those that have taken their lives where the pressure was so great.
Charan: In fact, I think there was this quote that I had heard that was saying with depression and suicide, it’s like the entire world is completely gray and muted. But around the noose, around everyone [inaudible 00:32:26], around that noose, you can see color. It’s like the only way to get to that color is to go through the hanging process and hang yourself. And it’s crazy.
Charan: I personally haven’t really, really suffered from depression. I’ve experienced depressing days, and I’ve had a taste of it. And it’s awful. It’s like nothing will ever make you happy, or joyous, or motivated to do anything again. But yeah, how did you turn that incredibly painful grieving moment to help build your character to say, “Hey, you know what? I’m going to keep going and-
Sid: Yeah, great question. Well, I mean, I think one, it gave me a level of understanding that I wouldn’t wish on anyone, that I wish I didn’t go through. Right? I never have said I’m a better person because my brother is gone. That doesn’t register. What does register is because of the suffering that we all taste of one way or another, I get that specific thing for people, and it fills you with a level of just … Imagine your bro-
[crosstalk 00:33:45]
Charan: I apologize. We have less than a minute. Can I just stop it and restart it? This is so good. I do not want to interrupt this. Okay? I’m so sorry, guys. Okay, I’ll stop in Zoom.
Charan: Sorry for the interruption. The Zoom link interrupted. But we are back now. And yeah, we were just having some pretty deep discussion. And Sid, you were telling me a little bit about how you were able to use some of those incredibly painful grieving moments to move on. I don’t want to say move on, but to use it as a way to build your future and to define who you are.
Sid: Yes. Yeah.
Charan: How did that go for you?
Sid: Yeah. I mean, I think I would … You shared something personal, too, with your brother. Imagine today if I had a friend, or an entrepreneur, or somebody who works at a tech company here that I’m invested in, and I’m sure these people exist, by the way, this isn’t like some far-fetched thing, who struggle with substance abuse, and more specifically, let’s just say heroin. Imagine the ability of your brother to help that person. They can empathize on a level that is just different.
Sid: And so now what I would say is if somebody … Whereas before, that subject of itself was taboo. I remember I had a friend growing up whose brother took his life, and I never asked about it. I never asked about his brother. It was like I didn’t want to say something wrong, which is understandable. But now, I love it when I get to talk about my brother, whether I talk to my kids about my brother, whether I see an old friend from where we grew up, and we can reminisce on my brother. That informs how I approach it when somebody has lost someone, particularly to suicide.
Sid: I love to just be like, “Tell me about so and so. I’d love to hear.” And that’s, I think, an insight that I would only have because I’ve felt that, and I know the healing power of feeling someone’s presence that definitely lives on in ways beyond their body being able to be here to hug and hold and things. So I just am grateful for that, deeply.
Charan: It’s so interesting because I’ve always felt, I don’t know … What you just said, I’ve always felt the spirit of people after they’ve moved on. I just know for sure that there is an existence past the one that we see in front of us right now, and it gives us a lot of comfort. But man, I’ll tell you, just the amount of anxiety and worry that we used to have as a family wondering, “Is my brother going to make it? Is he not going to make it?” That expiration date, that knowing because of his depression and his struggles, we all were struggling, even though we didn’t want to be struggling. It was very much our pain because we were taking it on.
Charan: We wanted to … Actually, that’s compassion. But I remember this conversation I had with my brother, and we were driving south. And I told him, I said, “Listen, Serey, I know full well when you take heroin. I know it. I know when you do it because your whole demeanor changes. You just look different. You act differently, and even though you try to hide it from us, it speaks. We can see.”
Charan: But then I told him, “But I want you to know that I always love you. And this is just a real demon. This is a real struggle, and I don’t want you to ever think that I will judge you because of your struggles because we all have our struggles, right? Just know that you can always come to me, and I will always love you. And I will always listen to you because I know that you don’t like this. You just feel trapped. You feel trapped.”
Charan: And that was such a turning point, I remember, in our conversation because then he never felt the need to hide when he was doing heroin. He was like, “Hey, I needed to get high.” “It’s okay, let’s talk about it.” It’s interesting because we have chatted since, and we just thought it’s so interesting what compassion can do for people, just true genuine compassion and love.
Charan: I really believe at the heart of every true business venture and stuff, if you can have compassion and love be your motivation for helping someone succeed, or helping build an empire, how much more compelling that would be. You know what I mean?
Sid: Yeah.
Charan: Yeah, so I appreciate you sharing that and being vulnerable. It means a lot, and it’ll mean a lot to the people that are listening, so thank you so much.
Sid: Of course, man.
Sid Krommenhoek Talks About Being a Venture Capitalist
Charan: Let’s talk a little bit about.. you’ve become a venture capitalist from your days of Sizzler to doing that, which is awesome. What is it that you are looking for in the future as far as investing in companies and investing in things, especially now that we are living in a situation around the world where we’re all facing this unknown threat of COVID? Right? What is your hope as an investor to-
Sid: Yeah, good question. During these times, when there is just more chaos around us, and it feels like a bomb just went off, another bomb seemed to go off. We’ve dealt with issues that were health-related, to economy-related, to civil rights and understanding that there are those who are disproportionately affected by the lack of understanding rights in particular, and maybe even at the hands and the abuse of others.
Sid: It feels like there’s still even shrapnel in the air right now. There’s reason that people feel levels of fear. There’s reasons we see record numbers of weapons being purchased and people stocking up in toilet paper. I remember early on in this, my mom was like, “Maybe we should buy a freezer. I hear there might be a shortage on meat.” So we went to look for a freezer online, and they were all sold out everywhere.
Charan: No way!
Sid: We could not buy a freezer. It was crazy, and it’s understandable. Interestingly, in these times, it is a time when those who operate outside of the status quo, those who aren’t looking to necessarily fall into line for another company, who aren’t looking to buy a certain product or transact in a way that we always have, those who are thinking about it differently can thrive because the world has said, yeah, it’s not in its regular orbit right now.
Sid: I think it serves those entrepreneurs who are looking to do something that hasn’t been done or that they think should be done very differently. And so we’re looking for those people. They have the classic qualities. They think big, and they can execute on their idea. Maybe they have some traction with it. But the best way I can describe it is they’re the founders who can be building something that the world doesn’t see. And they have this talent, and it’s part of our job as investor to see around the corner with them.
Sid: That’s what I feel like is what happens when I meet with an entrepreneur and I’m able to get their—and I end up investing in their business—is I’m able to be … There’s some point, this turning point where I go from all the reasons not to invest, all the reasons it’ll go wrong, to now, “Oh, my goodness. I can see that with you.” And then you’re in a different spot where you’re finding all the things that could go right for this to be something huge.
Sid: I have to be an optimist in this. I truly am an optimist in this. It’s with eyes wide open so those suffering, for sure. My family is like yours. It’s a mix of jobs, and situations, and kids, and kids who didn’t go through their graduation at high school, which is really the nice line in the sand to be like, “Okay, I’m progressing.” I’m sure it’s hard for those kids right now who don’t get the same satisfaction of checking that box.
Sid: At the same time, I think we’re going to see brilliance before us, and I get to be in those times when it’s quiet and the world doesn’t know yet. And I get to see the entrepreneur help me see around the corner.
Charan: Well, it’s interesting what you were saying because this world as we live in right now, the rules are being … There’s just no way you could read them right now. There’s no way you could comprehend what the future is going to hold because everything is changed. You would never have thought in 2020 we’re all going to be tracked. But yet, this is the kind of situation that we’re in.
Charan: However, and I love this analogy. It had brought me a lot of joy in my life. When Steven Spielberg was making the movie “Jaws,” one of the greatest things that happened was that the shark didn’t work. The mechanical shark completely failed, and they were like, “What are we going to do? How are we going to make this happen? He, using camera techniques, pushed in and gave it the perspective of the shark. And I honestly think that if we saw the shark a lot, it wouldn’t have been as effective as the way that he did it. Right?
Charan: So he saw his limitations, and he said, “Okay, you know what? With these limitations, let’s create something awesome.” And I think that same principle holds true for entrepreneurs and whatnot saying, “Hey, you know what? Yes, the world is completely chaotic. This is the perfect time we create something awesome.” You know what I mean?
Sid: That’s right. That’s right.
Charan: This is the best time for you to say, “Okay, let’s wrack our brains a little bit and think, what does the world need?”
Sid: Yeah, and nobody is going to fault you. Nobody is going to fault you for going at something audacious right now. If you look back and even think about explaining it like, “Oh, what happened in 2020? It looks like you weren’t too busy.” It’s like, “Yeah, the world stopped.” “Oh. Yeah, that’s right. Sorry.”
Sid: We all have a mulligan, so use it right. Go after it. Swing hard for something, because if ever there was a time where there’s going to be a lot of forgiveness, it’s going to be right now. We have 30 million people who are unemployed. We have industries that have been toppled. We have companies that will have to reform through bankruptcy and stuff. So just go for it.
Charan: Yeah. And it’s so tragic, some of these players that have been in the game for a long time that are now not in business at all. I’ve heard of multiple companies that are not even existing anymore. But it’s like, okay, this was a blow. This was huge. We could crumble up and die, or we can say, “Alright, this is the time. This is the time right now to start from ground zero and come up with something completely new and completely awesome.”
Charan: I’m hoping that this podcast right here could turn into something that could be totally awesome. Honestly, every dream and desire I had to build … I was doing a TV show. I was producing a couple of different TV shows, all that stuff. And I’m not saying it’s not happening. I’m just saying it came to a halt. And it was like, “Shoot, man.” I did “Silicon Valley.” I was doing all these things, and I was gearing up for this thing, thought it was going to happen. And then, now what do we do?
Charan: crosstalk 00:46:26] Yeah. And now I’m like, “Okay, I’m stoked. Let’s do this.” Let’s do these limited shoots that we have.
Sid Krommenhoek Talks About Fostering Company Culture
Derek: Sid, I’d love your perspective as you meet with these companies you invest in, and it’s those that sustain creativity, I think, is one of the things that’s just so interesting. And innovation within their culture, and building that now. How do you see teams now, when they’re remote? Because a lot of times when you come into a business, you can feed off of the other people’s energy and enthusiasm. And, “Hey, here’s what we’re going to go do.” How do you see that keeping company culture alive while so many people are working remotely and innovating?
Sid: Yeah, that’s a good question. Well, I think on one hand, if you were to think of the companies that we’ve been a part of … That’s when we first met was when we were in our startups. The natural people sometimes who come to the forefront with all the energy are those type-A personalities. It’s like a gregarious salesperson who can charm people on the phone and charm people in the office. And we made fun of the engineers. They’re the nerds for sitting in the corner, and they’re a little more antisocial.
Sid: What’s cool is the world turned. Now it’s like the people who were working in the dark and growing mustaches are like, “Awesome. This world serves me. I’m the kind of this new world. We all work from home, and I’m thriving.” And ironically, the people who got so much out of being able to have the water cooler conversations, they’re crippled. So I think it’s given us a new appreciation for the teams and the people who, even before might have been like, “Oh, he works from home. Do they actually work?” It turns out people who might have been introverted or might have just operated really well in their dark, quiet place, we appreciate them. We go, “Wow! Thank goodness we have people who can operate so well in this unusual set of circumstances.”
Sid: And on the flip side, I think we also realized that I don’t think office space is going to go away. I think we’re craving some things. And so I heard one of our companies say, “We’re very careful in how we’re going to reopen, and we’re going to reopen first for all of our salespeople because they’re just having a hard time.” They’ve got kids in the background, and they’re trying to close a deal. And they seem to thrive on more of that sometimes, team just running it up together, and excitement, and mojo.
Sid: And then I would just say this is where culture serves you. So one of our companies has a Monday morning town hall at 8:30 every Monday almost without exception. And it’s a time when they used to get together, but even some people would join remotely. And it’s when they all align, and everybody comes together. There’s shout-outs. There’s person of the week. There’s new hires. And they’ve continued to do that and exert that discipline, which has taken something familiar to the culture of the company and carried it forward.
Sid: And I think all of us are finding that, even with our own families, ways that we can say, “How can this tradition that is so …” You realize in these moments, what are we? I might just be a bag of chemicals that’s completely wrapped around a routine, and you stripped that of me. I mean, there have been days, honestly, where I’m like, “I don’t feel any sense of purpose. It’s embarrassing. Am I really … I thought I was so great until you stripped me of routine, and then I feel like I’m just blown around by the wind.”
Charan: Oh, shoot.
Sid: Am I there? Sorry, my battery just said I only have 10% left on my iPad. It’s okay. So anyway, so I think I’m appreciating the way that tradition, and good tradition, and pieces of culture is a family. My wife has been the one to carry that so perfectly for our kids. And for entrepreneurs, the way that they can carry it through this, even though they’ve had to evolve into the situation.
Charan: No, I love that you said that. And Sid, we really appreciate the time that you’ve given us, man. This is awesome.
Sid: Yeah, of course.
Sid Krommenhoek Talks About What Brings Him Joy
Charan: You’ve given me such nuggets of wisdom. And if nothing else, I’m going to start a blackjack table, because all I got out of this conversation … I’m just kidding. No, I won’t do that. But just a couple of last questions and we can wrap this up. What brings you joy right now?
Sid: Being able to assemble the people I love over food, or sport, or tradition. So the saddest thing for me this year is probably my wife and I put on an annual cousin camp. This is our sixth annual, or it would have been. And we’re hoping we can still do it. All of our nephews and nieces 12 and older, eight and older get to come. This year, it’s about 12 of them. We go to a location together, and it’s just not too tight of an agenda, tons of pool time. We have a tradition of going to the movie theater. We laugh about the year that we heard this movie theater allowed you to take in food, so we have two liters and chips, and we showed up.
Sid: And they were like, “What are you doing with all the food?” I’m like, “We heard you could bring food.” And they were like, “No.” I was so embarrassed like, “Okay, we’ll put that back in the car.” So I absolutely just love that, whether it’s in our backyard over some barbecue or getting my nephews and nieces, just being able to be with the people I love. It sounds so simple, but I can’t think. That is like my notion of heaven is with all of them and just all the conversations, and goofiness, and idiosyncrasies, and people feeling like they can just let their guard down because you’re with friends and family.
Charan: Dude, I love that, man. I mean, it’s all about relationships and making memories. That, to me, sums up joy.
Sid: Yeah!
Charan: I love it. I had a buddy in high school who was always like, “Hey, let’s make memories. Let’s make memories together.” And we used to make these stupid homemade movies that when you would make these movies, you’d record VCR to VCR. You know what I mean? You’d edit VCR to VCR. That’s how you would edit these tapes and stuff. And we would make these movies, and we thought they were hilarious. Everyone was like, “You guys are idiots.” But we thought they were so funny, and we made so many memories.
Charan: Well, sadly, that friend was involved in an accident, and he passed away. But now, I look back on those tapes, and I’m like, “They’re priceless.”
Sid: Oh, priceless.
Charan: They’re priceless.
Sid: They’re priceless.
Charan: And the reasons why I even got into the filmmaking business was this is a perfect opportunity for me to make memories with friends and create-
Sid: You can trace it back to that time.
Charan: Yeah.
Sid: It’s like Derek. I guarantee Derek, one day his little boy who’s fearless is going to be some grown man. He can’t hold him anymore. And he’s going to look back on him skiing, and him taking him to Sundance like a bazillion times to do … No, it is. These things we get, this is all short, and you better create some things, some memories with other people.
Derek: Like you longboarding with your kid last night.
Sid: Yeah, that’s right.
Derek: That’s exactly right, man.
Sid: That’s right.
Derek: So cool.
Sid: It’s the best.
Derek: [crosstalk 00:54:07] Okay, so I’ve got a serious question for you.
Sid: Yeah.
Derek: Other than growing an amazing beard and having amazing hair, what else are you really good at, Sid?
Sid: Nicknames and my bed-night song. My bed-night song game for my kids, I even have a 14-year-old, no 15, and last night she’s like … I sing to the other kids, and she’s like, “Dad, you can sing to me tonight.” I’m like, “Oh, yeah?” So I get to go and … I’ve got a good seven or eight songs, you guys, where I can … I probably think I sound better, but my nickname too, I could rattle off a nickname. I mean, my kids each have like 15. I am a nickname guy, and I’m a bed-night song guy. And I’m trying to learn the ukulele so that I can add that into it.
Charan: Dude, that’s awesome.
Derek: That’s next-level.
Sid Krommenhoek’s Advice to His Younger Self
Charan: Make sure you record it, because I know some recording artists, and we might be able to get a side gig for you. That would be rad. Well, okay. Last question for me, and then we can wrap it up unless, Derek, you have any other questions. What would you tell your younger version of you?
Sid: Yeah. Oh, man, this is easy. I would say, “Young Sid, the universe is on your side. It wants you to win.” That’s the same thing I would say to my brother. It’s the same thing I would say to your brother, to my friends in a struggle, or my friends where it’s … I just talked to an entrepreneur, and they had wire fraud. And literally, $1.2 million was defrauded from them by this Hong Kong … I mean, he was just beside himself, couldn’t get out of bed.
Sid: I would say, “The universe is on your side.” I really believe that. I believe that good and bad, at the end of the day, the universe is rooting for you. It’s going to work it out, and it’s going to put somebody there. It’s going to have mercy. It’s going to do things for you that you felt like, “I didn’t deserve that.” It’s going to do that for you. I really believe that.
Sid: And so I can’t understand sometimes when people are suffering or just having a rough go, but I still fundamentally would be like, “Sid, the universe is on your side, buddy. Hang in. You’re not going to have to be the best every day. You’re not going to have to perfectly …” Sometimes it’s just show up, man. Show up, and the universe is on your side.
Charan: Dude, I love that, man. I’m reading this book called “The Surrender Experiment,” and it all is about surrendering to the flow of life. Right? Not resisting it, not fighting everything and being like, “Oh, this isn’t happening.” Or, “That’s not happening.” It’s funny because little kids, they play that game where they’re trying to put the right shape in the right thing. And it’s like the square doesn’t go into the hole, but they’re trying to force it in. And you’re like, “No, no, no. It’s right here. You’ve got to put the square into the square hole.” And yet, we do the same thing in our lives where we’re trying to-
Sid: We do.
Charan: [crosstalk 00:56:59] certain things all the time. And it’s like, “Hey,” like you said, “the universe is on your side. God is on your side. Just trust in that and go with the flow instead of fighting it.”
Sid: Yeah.
Charan: Derek, do you have anything you wanted to ask or say?
Derek: No. Sid, thanks so much for your time.
Sid: You bet.
Derek: So much value, so good to see you.
Sid: Great to see you both.
Derek: And appreciate all the good you’re doing, man, just appreciate you. And especially here in the Utah business community, all the value that you’ve added, and also inspired by the pushups that you’re doing.
Sid: I got to. Now you know. I mean, mental health is … If you ask me to contribute there somehow, I got to do it. It’s a personal cause that I-
Derek: Well, thanks so much for your time, Sid. Great to see you.
Charan: Yeah, you’re the best, dude. Thank you so much, and-
Sid: I care about you both. Have a good one.
Charan: We should all hang out in person sometimes too.
Derek: That’ll be awesome.
Sid: And we will, for sure.
Charan: Okay. Awesome. Take care, guys.
Sid: See you guys.
Charan: Thanks so much for listening to the Lemonade Stand podcast, and we hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you use to be alerted when we release new episodes. We’d also love to hear your feedback in the reviews. And if you or someone you know has an awesome Lemonade Stand story, please reach out to us on social media and let us know. Thanks so much, and have a great day.