Chillin’ with Boston and Renny
Boston McConnaughey and Renny Grames are the coolest!! They are a directing/producing team that has created films for top brands such as Reebok, Nokia, Sony, as well as award-winning spots for Showtime and Coca-Cola.
Together they created the production company Storylands Interactive, which has a YouTube channel featuring their Freakin Rad shorts which have garnered multi-millions of views and over 135,000 subscribers. Currently, they are working on the feature film “Alien Country” and bringing their audience along for the ride with them in real time. It’s not every day that you get to see what it’s like to make a movie, but Boston and Renny are two of the most down-to-earth producers in the business. Join them at:
https://aliencountrymovie.com/
https://www.facebook.com/aliencountrymovie/
@aliencountrymovie
Where Reality Meets the Screen
Boston and Renny’s relationship is rooted in film. The two met on the set of “Missed Connections,” a movie Renny was acting in at the time. Three years later, they were married and working as a power couple within the industry. Renny is often in front of the camera as an actress, while Boston is typically behind the scenes. They have created numerous commercials and films that you’ve undoubtedly seen—even if you didn’t realize it at the time.
What’s great about this couple, as stated above, is that they take their fans with them on both professional and personal adventures. They have shared vlogs about everything from road trips to life at home. Renny is also enthusiastic about fitness, so she has made several videos for people with topics like yoga and reaching your goals.
Thankfully, all of those videos—personal and work-related—the couple has given to fans for free on their YouTube channel. You can even say “aww” to some of their videos where they sing together, work out together, or just give you a sneak peek into their daily lives. It’s refreshing to see a couple that can work together and have so much fun together all at once.
The Power of Production
The couple has another YouTube channel, Indie Film School, dedicated to giving viewers a behind-the-scenes look at film production, as well as tips along the way. They do this all for free as a resource for up-and-coming filmmakers. You won’t find many people in the industry giving away free insider information like that. The fact that they are doing it in video form and making everything easy to understand and follow is that much more unique.
That brings us back to “Alien Country, “the couple’s latest endeavor. It is a feature-length film, and while there will undoubtedly be some twists, turns, and surprises within the final edit, the couple isn’t shy about bringing people along for the ride. In fact, they have a behind-the-scenes video on the front page of the Alien Country website, where you can see their creative process and everything that has gone in to putting this film together. You can also check out their social media accounts for the film for regular updates and looks behind the scenes.
As you can see, Boston and Renny are a bit unique when it comes to stereotypical “celebrity” couples. While they might fly under the radar and produce smaller films and commercials, they are very much deep within the industry, bringing a touch of real life to a place that sometimes gets dubbed as fake or too polished.
One of the most important things about their ability to do that is that they are, in the process, encouraging other filmmakers, actors, and producers to go after their dreams. They are taking a casual-yet-hard-working approach to filmmaking and making it accessible for everyone with insider knowledge and free resources.
While these two will undoubtedly stay in the indie film industry, they are truly a power couple when it comes to filmmaking, production, and living a life together that involves work and play in the best way possible. If you’re at all interested in filmmaking, or you just want to see an awesome couple in action, be sure to follow these two on their social media accounts—you won’t regret it!
Boston and Renny Podcast Transcription
Charan: Hey, guys. Welcome to the Lemonade Stand podcast. I am your host, Charan Prabhakar, and I’m with my good friends Boston and Renny, who have the most perfect, white teeth in the world. It’s unbelievable, actually.
Renny: Yours aren’t that bad, either, man.
Charan: Well, I appreciate that. I’ve had a lot of dental work done, and I have veneers. I don’t, I don’t. They’re normal teeth, I swear.
Charan: But I am super excited that you guys have joined me. So just a little bit of background, guys, on who Boston and Renny are. Aside from being incredibly rad people, and having incredibly rad hair, Boston is a producer, filmmaker, director. He’s been working on this since he was about 11 years old or so, we’ve finally decided. And Renny has been an actress and a producer, and has been acting since 10. There’s no competition. We established what ages we were when we did these things. But they-
Boston: But I got my… A camera, still camera, when I was eight, so-
Charan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. I forgot I-
Renny: And I started taking voice… No, I’m just kidding.
Boston: I did gymnastics at two.
Charan: It’s perfect. So these guys are the ultimate power couple, and they have been working… They’re a married couple, and have also been working together for a long time as well, right? Have you been working together since you’ve been married? Or did you guys decide-
Boston: Even before.
Charan: Even before.
Renny: So we met on set. And then we started dating, and then we started making stuff together when we were dating. So yeah.
Boston: Yeah, so the whole time, our relationship has been… Yeah, I mean, in various degrees. Thank you very much. Should I be holding my own mic? All right. We’re passing the mic between the two of us. But yeah, I feel like we’ve been working on art projects together, and that art turned into careers for the both of us. And so I feel like there’s synergy in our relationship, when it comes to both business and, hopefully, romance.
Charan: Yes, of course. Well, this is a G-rated show, so we’ll just go ahead and leave it at that. No, but it’s fantastic. I mean, you guys are incredible people, and I love your energy. And I actually met you both physically at an agency party, an acting agency party.
Renny: That is correct.
Charan: That is correct. But we have known of each other for some time, right? And now, here’s the thing, guys. Everyone that’s listening or watching this video… Boston, Renny, they had a YouTube channel called Freakin Rad, which amassed over 130,000 followers. And now it’s at 135,000 followers. We’ve established that. The name of the YouTube channel has changed from Freakin Rad to Indie Film School, correct? And their production company’s called Storylands, and they have created such awesome, cinematic, hilarious content. You watch these videos, and you’re thinking, “Wait, what is actually happening in Boston’s brain to create these incredible cinematic videos involving Care Bears exploding?”
Charan: So Boston, can you give us a little bit of insight as to what happened there?
Boston: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think… I came out of college, right? And companies weren’t hiring. It was a recession, right? But YouTube started to exist, and you could make a living literally just publishing whatever content you wanted, as long as you compete and get attention.
Boston: And so we would kind of come up with formulas and ideas, things that would work, that would get shared or whatever it would be. So a lot of what we would do… Would mash up two things that people love, or one thing that somebody loves and another thing people hate. Whatever it is, you put those together. And we just started to get more and more zany with it, to the point where we were taking popular action-intense video games like Destiny, and then throwing ’80s cartoon characters like Care Bears into it. So we have “DESTINY vs. CAREBEARS” as one of our hilarious videos.
Boston: And I think that we probably all stood around and realized, “How did we get here?” And we’re all glad that we did, however it happened, so…
Charan: Well, the thing is, it’s not just “How did we get here,” but “How did we get here as adults?” I think that’s more of-
Renny: You never grow up. That’s what happens.
Boston: Yeah, you mentioned I started making films when I was 11 years old, and… But it was just those quintessential… What movies do I watch, even as a kid, that I just get captivated by? And there were fantasy movies, and they were… And I realized the movies I was making when I was a kid are still the same type of movies that I’m making now. I’m not making the same stories or the same ideas. I think those have matured. But I’m still making movies about knights in shining armor, or space pirates, or whatever it needs to be. And it’s just the things that have always been fun to come with crazy ideas and fantasize about.
Boston: But at the end of the day, it’s like… What your subject matter is, what the stories are, can become really influenced by your status in life. I think when I was single, for example, I would tell a lot of stories about finding love. And now that I’m married, I’m telling a lot of stories about staying in love. And that’s just kind of where I’m at, but yeah.
Boston Talks About His Start in Filmmaking
Charan: Now, let me ask you this real quick, Boston. What prompted you to be a filmmaker to begin with? What was exciting about it, or what was it so fun?
Boston: Yeah. For me, I got this camera. And I remember when I was eight, right? My parents got me a 110 film camera. I don’t know if they got it for me, or if I just grabbed it and they had it, or whatever it was. But I remember going around one summer and taking a bunch of pictures. And I think we were watching fireworks on Fourth of July, and there was a firetruck. I took a picture of this firetruck. I took a picture of people.
Boston: nd once those pictures were developed, I looked at them, and it was just magic as an eight-year-old. I was like, “Holy cow. I can capture an image and then go back to that exact moment again?” It felt like time travel. It felt like I had a time capsule, and it was the coolest thing. And I took tons of pictures.
Boston: And then we got this camera, right? Video camera. And now it was like, “Wow, I can tell a story. And I can capture my life, I can capture my ideas, and put them… And then always go back to them, and make it more…” And it became a way that I would connect with my friends. I would work with my friends on a project, and it was just something to do. But now we have this time capsule to go back to always, and remember, “Oh yeah, this is what we did.”
Boston: And also, I started liking making documentaries, right? And that was such a great way for me to learn something, because I was very… An active learner, and I wanted to learn about how does someone do this, that, or the other thing, and documenting them and asking questions. And then going through that footage over and over again would cement those concepts.
Boston: So it’s just been… I feel like filmmaking is just a way to connect to people. And that’s why I’ve done it my whole life. And it’s also a way to learn and grow. So it’s very much life as art, yeah.
Charan: I love that. It’s amazing, and I can definitely resonate with a lot of things you said. I’ve never ever thought, “Hey, it was a time capsule.” But that’s exactly what it is, right? It was a great way to create memories with your friends, and you can go back and… I don’t know, I’m just a big believer in making memories wherever you go. I feel like, for me, memories are more valuable than material things. And I always thought, “Yeah, it might be cool to have a boat. Or it might be cool to have this or this or that.” But then I realized, “Hey, you know what? I’ll just let my rich friends have the boats, and I’ll just hop on with them.” Then I don’t have to take care of the boat, man, and I can make memories with them, so-
Renny: Fun fact about time capsules. One of our first dates is… Was captured on Super 8 film.
Charan: Are you kidding me?
Renny: Yeah.
Boston: Yeah, our very first date. Yeah. Fun fact about boats: they always break. So yes, good idea.
Charan: Thank you. Well, that’s fantastic.
Renny Talks About How She Got into Acting
Charan: Now Renny, you got into acting, you said, when you were around 10 or so, right?
Renny: Yeah. So my first musical, I played Gretel-
Charan: Fantastic.
Renny: …in “The Sound of Music.” And I really wanted to do musical theater growing up. So that was sort of what I went after early on. And then I discovered film, and how intimate film is. And I fell in love with film. So I think that film fits my personality a little bit better. And yeah, I just kind of found this little niche within film, and I love it. And I love that experience of being on set and kind of getting into flow with another character, and living in the moment.
Renny: We were talking about this before, how it’s just electric-
Charan: It is.
Renny: When you experience that moment of magic between… On set or on stage, it’s incredible.
Charan: Now, you have mentioned this to me. But the energy you feel on stage is different than the energy you feel on set, right? In terms of… You don’t have a live audience that you’re getting immediate response from. You’re not able to just cut and stop during the play. You’re just going with it, right? And there’s that feeling of being alive. Whereas on film, we’re stopping every two seconds sometimes, right?
Renny: Yeah. It’s a pretty different experience. Something that is extremely beautiful about film is because it’s so quick, and because you only do it a limited amount of times, you can… First of all, you have to make discoveries pretty quickly. But those discoveries can be new and feel… That discovery can be really intense on set. Whereas when you’re acting on the stage, if you have to cry every night, you’ve got to figure out how to cry ever night. And it might not feel fresh every night.
Renny: And so both art forms take a grounding. We talked about this a little bit prior, where… I’m classically trained as an actress. And I feel like both art forms take that type of grounding in your art, where you just need to understand your… What your character’s motivations are, and what their objectives are, and how they relate to the characters in the scene, and be in the moment. And it’s truly, truly… If you connect in the moment, you can experience something really beautiful.
Renny: Boston and I, we… He helps me with some of my auditions sometimes. And I kid you not, we were both crying the other day in this audition, because… And we laugh about it.
Boston: Well, it was… I mean, the script was very cheesy. But we were like, “You know what?” But at the same time, it was about a mother who was reconnecting with her daughter that she had given up for adoption when she was a teenager. It was like this… And it was a heartfelt family movie. And the cheesiness was there, but I was like, “This is a real intense scene.” And so we both got really into it. And of course, I was playing the daughter, and I started crying.
Charan: You are a beautiful daughter.
Boston: Yeah. It was great.
Renny: You made me start crying even harder, and it was the type of thing where I was like, “Wait, I’m supposed to just not actually cry a lot. Just a little bit.” And so I was trying to… But it’s those magical moments, where being grounded in some classical training can really help. Because what’s also different about film from theater is the amount of distraction that’s around you. Because you might have a camera right here, and you’re like, “Oh shoot, I’ve got a zit today. This is bad.” Or you’ve got the director talking to the cameramen over here, and you’ve got to be in the moment so that once the camera’s rolling, you’re in that moment.
Renny: So it’s definitely different art forms, but it takes the same type of grounding in your training that can make you fly when you’re acting.
Renny and Boston Talk About Working Together
Charan: No, I think it’s awesome. And you guys were mentioning about how you’re in this audition, and you’re both crying. Have you found that working together, it’s helped you become even more vulnerable?
Renny: We cry everyday working together.
Boston: Yeah. Do we? No, we get… But wait, so say it again. “Be more vulnerable,” right?
Charan: Yeah, do you feel like you’re more vulnerable with each other, just because you’re working so hard together, and you’re always having to communicate with each other? And your goals are kind of the same, and all that stuff?
Boston: I will say that we’ve really… 2020’s been a weird year. It’s, right now, July, in the middle of… Pretty much middle of the year. And I think a lot of families are experiencing, “Wow, I’ve never been around my significant others this much.” And Renny and I are like, “Well, that was kind of par for the course.” We work together. We have an office. We’re in our office right now. But we spend our time together a lot, and I definitely have had to learn where my shortcomings are.
Boston: And we’ve had to learn, yeah, good communication, just beyond… Anybody you’re going to work with, you’re going to have disagreements with. And you’re going to have to have difference of opinions, and all those types of natural things. And the more you learn how to, I don’t know, just understand other people’s perspectives, and understand your own shortcomings… I think for me, it’s been a really great learning curve of, “What are my shortcomings?” If I can address them, if I can be self-aware, I can overcome them anytime we have a disagreement. We don’t have to fight about this at all. This is not worth fighting about. And if we can get past that stage, we can move on and continue a successful career, business, fun art career.
Renny: I think also, we’re really pretty good at… Once we’re in a professional setting, or we’re on set, we just drop everything else, and we are the roles that we are. And I’ve realized if I’m producing with Boston, I understand what I need to do per project to support him when he’s directing. And we’ve been doing it so long now that it’s very intuitive. And I understand, even as simple as, “He hasn’t eaten in this amount of time. I need to get him some food.” You know what I mean? Which sounds super silly.
Renny: But honestly, I was on set with an actress in December, who didn’t… Her blood sugar dropped, and we had to stop rolling the camera for almost an hour, because she was really struggling during the lunch hour to get her energy up. So these things are really important.
Renny: I’ve also learned… When we were on set of the Demolition Derby last summer, getting B roll for our promo trailer, for our film, and for footage for our film itself, we didn’t have a lot of… We didn’t have an AD calling action, because we were at a live promotional event. And I swear, he directed me just through just hand signals and eye contact, because we just know how to work together so well. And it was like… He was down in the derby pit, and I’m up in the stands. And with a nod, he’s like, “Action.”
Boston: There was one time, though, where… You can hear on the camera. I was so embarrassed. But I was like, “Okay, action.” And she started walking, and she turned her back to camera because I was… It was a follow shot, so I was following her up into the stands. And then I bumped the camera and I needed to reset. And right as I was saying, “Hey Renny,” the crowd erupted into… Because this truck got knocked over.
Boston: And I was like… I just started screaming like, “Renny, Renny, Renny, Renny.” I was just so hoarse, but she couldn’t hear me. And it was like-
Renny: Just walking [crosstalk 00:16:40].
Boston: Yeah, she did a great job. But I just remember walking back, and I was like, “I sounded insane.” Because I couldn’t get over the crowd. That was a great moment. And I was super… I was also super embarrassed, because I was like, “People don’t know why I’m yelling. Do I look like I’m crazy right now? Probably. I’m trying to get my actress to hear me over this crowd.” Anyway.
Charan: Oh man. That is awesome.
Renny and Boston Talk About “Alien Country”
Charan: Well, I want to talk a little bit about “Alien Country,” if you don’t mind, because that is the feature film that you guys are working on right now. And I remember, you gave me a version of that script to read, and it was called “Shotgun Jimmy” at the time. I remember reading it and being so captivated by it.
Charan: Finding a script to read as an actor is… That’s really exciting for you, is very hard to come by.
Renny: Amen.
Charan: It really is. I mean, I’ve read so many different scripts, and you’re like, “Okay, great. Now I have to fake being excited about this.” Right?
Charan: But when I read your script, I genuinely was so excited. I thought it was so fun. It had a lot of good moments in it, and it was exactly the type of film I wanted to make, which was fun and action, and it has elements of sci-fi. It has this world that you go into, where your imagination has to really kind of take over. And yet, at the same time, there’s a lot of heart to it. And there’s a really good messaging to it, without being overly preachy or on-nose or whatever.
Charan: So how did this project come about in your brains? When did you guys start deciding to write it? And where are you at with it right now?
Renny: Well, I just want to say, first of all, that when you read the script with us that first time, you were actually reading two different parts. And your energy that you brought to one of the parts was so magnetic and magical that we were just like, “Okay, you’re on board. We love you in this part.” And it was incredible. That’s those magical moments that you work for, so…
Boston: Yeah. The project itself, “Alien Country,” has taken on several different iterations. So I remember, I wrote this… And I actually just dug up a bunch of scripts, because one thing that we’re doing is we’ve been rewriting and rewriting. And now we’re at a point where we’re about to lock these pages. And what I’ve done is I’ve gone back through all the different versions of this script, and all the different scripts that had different versions of this idea in it. And see if there’s jokes and moments that I’m like, “Oh, I can borrow that. I can steal that from these things that aren’t going into production this year.”
Boston: But one of them was… I created a short called “Invaded.” It’s a short film. I think it was five pages, and it’s in the same world. But what happens when this alien invasion happens to this small town in the desert, but to a different family. And how do they… And it was kind of this idea that I’d had, and I was like, “Oh, that’s a good one.”
Boston: I had another version of this with the same characters, at least the same main character, Everly. There was a prequel kind of short film that I made called “Double Barrel Americana,” and it was about Everly trying to get her band career off the ground, and it not working out.
Boston: And then, of course, I had “Shotgun Jimmy,” which was the feature length where she and her boyfriend, basically Jimmy, they get pregnant without planning it. And in the middle of dealing with… Can they actually keep their relationship together? Can he prove that he would actually be a good partner? Can she realize her dream of being a singer? All these things that are going on. Luckily, to help them solve their problems, an alien invasion happens.
Charan: Thankfully.
Boston: Yeah. So yeah. So that was… I mean, that was “Shotgun Jimmy.” And originally, “Shotgun Jimmy”… Believe it or not, the version had no aliens in it whatsoever.
Charan: Oh really?
Boston: Yeah. And it just kind of this modern-day Western, was how I was kind of framing it. And I just loved hiking in the desert. There was some demolition derby stuff in there, maybe. No, there was motorcycles. Motorcycle gangs and motorcycle chasing, and all that kind of stuff.
Boston: And then eventually, I actually had a chance to interview Stan Lee, and was-
Charan: Which is amazing, by the way.
Boston: Yeah. And he basically gave me this advice. And I was like, “Well, how do you come up with the stories you do?” And he’s like, “Well, I just… If I’m going to think about what story I’m going to tell, I always come back to, ‘What would I enjoy reading?’ It’s not about thinking about other people, and ‘How could I sell this?’ Or ‘Who would watch this?’ Or ‘Who is…’ What would I enjoy? Because my…”
Boston: And Stan Lee is like, “I’m not that unique. If I would like this, there must be lots of other people who’d like it, as well. So if I would like this idea, I’ll just make it the best idea I could make for myself.” He was like, “Because I always wrote to please myself.”
Boston: And as I sat and looked at this early version of “Shotgun Jimmy,” I was like, “What is it missing?” And I’m like, “It’s…” And at the time, I was actually… I shot a short film with some people out in the desert, and talked to this lady who owned a gas station. And she was telling me all these U.F.O. experiences. And I just realized, “If I’m capturing Utah, if I’m capturing the place I live, the place I love, in a film, it needs to have aliens.”
Charan: Of course.
Boston: And of course, when it comes down to it, all of the real movies that I love, they’re monster movies. And I really wanted to make a monster movie. And whether that’s going to be my lifelong calling, like Guillermo del Toro does, or not, I still wanted to make a movie with monsters in it, because that’s just a story I would love to watch. It’s a movie I would love to watch.
Boston: So that’s how this turned into “Shotgun Jimmy,” the version with aliens. And then that became an expensive version. And then we basically rewrote it as more of this couple’s drama that we turned into, now, what’s called “Alien Country.”
Charan: No, that’s awesome. Renny, do you have anything to add about that, or…
Renny: Do I have anything to add to that? Actually, one of our first table reads of… Maybe it was “Double Barrel Americana,” was when I knew we had something really special. I feel like we were down at a library somewhere, with a bunch of… We were all pretty fresh out of film school still. And we did a table read, and people were just rolling. They were just laughing so hard. And it made me realize that we had something pretty special in the story.
Renny: And honestly, that was probably eight years ago, and… Seven years ago, or something. So the story has been through a lot of changes. We’ve broken down different budgets for it. We’ve been pitching it for a while. We finally feel like we have a lot of traction. We’ve got our UPM on board. Finally, we’re making it now. And the story’s definitely…
Renny: It’s funny, because you fall in love with different versions of the story, and even different characters. Our characters have changed dramatically, and… For instance, we actually… Some of the feedback we got was about your character, about a year ago. They were like, “We need to see more Ben.” And so we wrote more Ben in, and that affected the other characters. And so those characters had to be adjusted quite a bit. And we’re still kind of finding the balance there, and…
Renny: But it’s just interesting how you fall in love with different iterations of something that doesn’t even exist yet, really. These characters, you fall in love with them. And then you change them, and you’re like… But now, we’re currently in love with Nana, and we’re trying to make all the proper changes to the rest of the characters so that we love them all equally.
Charan: That’s awesome.
Boston: Yeah, it has been, actually, really nice, because at a certain point, you do start to fall out of love with your story. And the last few months have been a slog, because I’m like, “Is this even a movie I want to make anymore?” Which isn’t true. It’s just getting to that point where I’ve written so many versions of the script. It’s well over 40 at this point, and that’s so many drafts of the same story.
Boston: And so I went back to these earlier drafts, and I remember reading some of them and going, “Okay, no. What we’ve got right now is so much better than what we had at the beginning.” And so I am really proud of where are.
Charan: That’s awesome.
Renny: There’s so many versions of this script that there are inside jokes within the characters, that no one will know but us.
Boston: Also, it’s funny when we get feedback, because it’s like, “Hey, have you ever thought of this?” And the answer’s probably yes. We’ve spent enough years on this. Yeah.
Boston: And it’s funny that you mention that, because we got that… Anyway, it wasn’t working, but we tried it.
Renny and Boston Talk About Persevering Through Struggles
Charan: That’s awesome. Well guys, I want to shift gears just a little bit. In the world of filmmaking, and just in life in general, when you’re creating anything, you’re bound to come against some pitfalls, right? Some struggles and things like that. So what are some of the struggles and pitfalls you’ve experienced while you have attempted to become a filmmaker, an actress, or anything like that? It could be personal struggles, it could be career struggles, anything.
Renny: You want to go first?
Boston: Oh, I’ll jump right in. Plenty of struggles. So there are so many struggles, especially in a creative pursuit. And I think that everything ultimately… If you want to make it in life, you need to be creative. I spent some time in Silicon Valley, and it’s all like… Everyone’s, oh yeah, displaced in the work force and automation. And all these sort of things are happening.
Boston: And that’s really exciting to me, because it forces us to embrace what really is unique about being human. And that’s being creative. So whether you’re going into teaching, or whether you’re going into filmmaking, or whether you’re going into engineering, you need to find your creative source. And that will be a struggle no matter what.
Boston: But some of the struggles I have seen, and one that would be great, I think, for this audience is to hear that really, making movies with your friends is fun. And you always have to remember to find people that you connect with, that you collaborate with the best. And honestly, we’re making this movie together, the three of us, “Alien Country, “because when we hang, when we talked and we had just met, we read through the script, et cetera, it was just… It felt like we were just kids playing again. It felt like fun. It felt like that friendship. And that’s going to bring the best product, is if people that you get along with…
Boston: And then also, I think preserving a friendship over a business can be… Is really, really… Can be difficult, right? But it’s really, really important. And a lot of… One thing I’ve said over the years is I’ve had… I’ve gotten into business with lots of friends, and the friendships that last are when people have good intentions, right, but at the end of the day, are good people, good-hearted people. And there’s people who go in with intentions, and they’re willing to sacrifice friendship for business. And the way to mitigate that is to have some kind of agreement from the get-go.
Boston: And so we always say, “If you want to be… If you want to keep your friendships, have a contract in place.” And I think that that’s really great. And so that’s my thing, is ultimately, friendship… Even lawyers help you keep your friends. It’s kind of funny in business, but that’s reality. And I think that that’s… And also, it creates expectation, which, again, are important in any relationship, is you have to understand what someone’s expectations are going to be. What are your expectations of yourself? Can you communicate those clearly, and then execute?
Renny: Yeah. This business has its ups and downs, and I think that you… I mean, as an actress, I experience a lot of rejection. And that can be very difficult. And I think that developing a sense of self has been the most important thing. And I think that… Especially, we are now self-employed. We employ ourselves, and that has its ups and downs, of course. And so having that relationship with each other that we just come back to, to be super solid, is really important.
Renny: I have been through a divorce. This was a while ago. But there’s been personal struggles and professional struggles. And I think, at the end of the day, it’s kind of coming back to what you were saying before, is… Remembering why you’re doing something, because you love it so much. And it’s like… There’s nothing wrong with changing your mind, too. If you discover you don’t love doing something, stop doing it.
Renny: But also, I think taking the risks to make sure that you are… We’re pretty set in our career right now. Not saying that that could never change, but I think the thing that we’ve done consistently, and myself even, is make our own content, and take risks. And sometimes they work for you, and sometimes they don’t. We’ve taken plenty of risks that don’t work out. And I feel like-
Charan: How have you been able to bounce back when a risk that you took didn’t work out?
Renny: You pivot, and you just say, “Okay, that didn’t work. Let’s try something else.” So we spent some time in Silicon Valley, and we were side-hustling the whole time. We both had day jobs, but we were side-hustling really hard to make the content that we love. Because we were making content at the time that was fun and engaging, but it wasn’t what we love, right? And when we left Silicon Valley, we had a six-figure deal in place. And we were just like, “Score. We’re moving back to Utah. We’re going to live in our house. This is awesome. We’re building our own business.”
Renny: And this deal that took about 10 months to set up, go back and forth with contracts and lawyers and everything, fell, fell through. And we had to really scramble to figure out what we were going to do next. And we didn’t have those day jobs anymore that were paying the bills. And so we really had to… I mean, it just makes you work harder. You’re either going to sink or swim, and I think it’s a survival instinct to swim, and kind of figure out, “Okay, so what do we do next? What is the game plan?”
Renny: And luckily, we’ve always been able to make it through. And we’ve had really loyal clients come to us, and we pitch a lot of ideas to a lot of different people constantly. And probably 90% of them don’t go anywhere, but the ones that do are the ones that get us through.
Boston: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I would say that… Yeah, you’re going to experience heart ache. You’re going to experience that. This adaptation piece has been one of the secrets to our success.
Boston: So if you’re starting a business, you might have a great idea. But that idea that you… You’re going to have to find what’s new, what’s on the horizon, and kind of keep your eyes out. I watched a bunch of people make YouTube channels, and I launched my YouTube channel around the same time as a number of my friends, or even before some of my friends, who went on to hit millions of subscribers and make their entire business off their YouTube channel, because they found their unique niche.
Boston: And now, if you’re going into YouTube, you can still make a career out of that. But you have to look at how the ecosystem is currently set up. So how you… What kind of content you’re going to create for YouTube, very different than five years ago, very different than 10 years ago. And your ability to reach an audience… There’s a bigger audience there now, but how are you going to hit that smaller demographic? You have to constantly look for innovation.
Boston: And one thing that we were obsessed with, when it first came out, 360 video, which turned into VR content, right? Virtual reality content. All of that, to me, seemed like a new wave of something that was coming. And so as soon as I saw that happen, I seized an opportunity, and it made my career for the next three or four years, going with 360 video. That was a phase, and it moved into virtual reality content.
Boston: Virtual reality, augmented reality. These are new things that are emerging that I’m taking risks on personally, because I know that there’s going to be this wave and surge of people looking to experience those type of things. How long that wave goes for… Is it a tsunami? Or is it just a gradual little crest and fall? I don’t know. No one really knows, but taking that risk and just trying it, being a person who does that, will land you more and more opportunities.
Boston: And even some technologies we’re using in this feature film are things that I think are it. I’m like, “This is the future.” I’ve started learning Unreal Engine, right? A game engine, right? I’m a filmmaker, but I’m learning how to use this game engine because I want to do interactive content. Because I see that being the future. I really see people wanting not just to watch a film, but to be in and experience a film-like story in an interactive setting.
Boston: And that’s happening more and more and more. Video games are becoming much more story-driven. It’s no longer the Mario jump, eat mushrooms and get big, and all that kind of stuff. It’s really all about story and connecting, and telling morals and all that sort of stuff.
Boston: Anyway, the long tirade is… Really boils down to that… Just always looking for something new and fresh. And that game engine, Unreal, they announced this last year, that they have this thing called virtual production, right? And it’s been around for a while, but they’re now unlocking and making it free for anyone who wants to put a big screen behind somebody and track a camera. And now you can literally put someone anywhere.
Boston: And they used that on “The Mandalorian,” right? John Favreau said, “Oh yes, this is it.” And they saved millions, hundreds of millions of dollars on “The Mandalorian” by making this sound stage and shooting these people in a video game. Basically, it’s what happened, right?
Boston: And so yeah, we’re looking at those trends in technology, or even just trends in what’s cool, what’s hot, what’s topical. That can really help set you up for success. And even if you don’t hit it perfectly, your ability to find a trend, find a new technology, and adapt will serve you for your lifelong career.
Charan: I love the way that you were talking about just adapting. I think that’s such an important piece to this whole… Filmmaking, life processes, just adapting. We adapt to survive, right?
Charan: I remember when I first got into film. There were all these filmmakers that were just diehard 35 millimeter fans, right? And they were like, “We will never go into digital. We will always shoot on 35 millimeter. That’s the way to go.” I feel like hardly anyone shoots on 35 millimeter anymore. We still have your Christopher Nolan’s and stuff. The majority of filmmakers these days shoot on digital cameras, and they look so great, right? You adapt. You adapt to survive.
Charan: And this year has been very much an adapting to survive situation, right? Well, you guys have always been self-employed, and so you kind of know what it feels like to just face an uncertain landscape and think, “Okay, let’s just figure this out.” There’s a lot of people, though, that are so stuck to routines. They’re stuck to… “This is the way life is. This is the amount of money we’re making.”
Charan: And they’re so set on those things that when 2020 hit, and COVID hit specifically, and we were shut down, people started freaking out, right? It wasn’t just about being sick. It was about being shut down, getting cut off from their source of funding, their source of money. And then suicide was on the rise, depression was on the rise. It was crazy.
Renny and Boston Talk About Finding Joy and Purpose in Uncertainty
Charan: So how have you guys been able to maintain a sense of joy and purpose in your own lives when all this stuff was going down?
Boston: We just trust the government completely.
Charan: Totally.
Boston: That’s what you do. No, no, definitely not. But whatever.
Renny: I have some personal practices that are in the… That are spiritual, that I turn to. And I utilize meditation and journaling, and connecting to source or the universe or God, or however people want to talk about it. And I think that I really come back to my loved ones and my family and my relationships when things are hard. And those moments of self-reflection, and finding the breath and the moments of stillness to kind of return to ground zero, so that you can feel level and peaceful, and remember that everything is going to be okay… Although that earthquake a couple months ago really…
Charan: That did a number on you? I think it shook a lot of people up.
Renny: Yeah, literally.
Boston: Yeah, I think that… You were talking about routine, and people who rely upon a routine. What’s really interesting is I felt like… We have clients, and a lot of our clients require us to go into production, film for them. Which means travel, which means all that. And production, travel, those things were cut out this year.
Boston: We’ve done a couple things where it was smaller budgets allowed or whatever. But some of our big clients was like, “Well, we have a project. We have eight projects for you, but they’re on hold. And so we took… We still had post-production work, or people who would do… They replace a video with just doing something stock, or motion graphics, or whatever that end up being.
Boston: But it comes down to… You have your given routine, and your routine changes. For me, I have never been good at a routine, right? I will do things for periods of time. But I think the longest committed routine might last three months. And I’m not saying that I…
Boston: But developing a new habit… When I was in school, if someone was like, “Oh, all you have to do is this assignment every day for the semester. And it’s really simple. You have to write one sentence every day for the end of the semester.” I’m like, “Great, I’m failing this class.” I can-
Renny: That is not how your brain works.
Boston: Because two weeks later, I’ll be like, “Oh, I was supposed to write a sentence every day. Well, I’ll just write 14 sentences today then.” Or whatever. It’s just like… That’s how it works. I am a little bit more scattered. So developing a new habit…
Boston: However, when COVID hit for us, there were things that I decided… I had some extra time to figure out some new things. And if I look at what I’ve done, yeah, there’s been moments where I’ll do a couple sprints. Sprints are great for me, where it’s like… Two weeks, we’re spending all of our time on this. And that’s really great.
Boston: And so I’ve just always been able to change up, add things for a period of time. And giving myself a limit. If you’re in a day job, right, and you… But you want to do something on the side, set that time limit. If you don’t have a time limit, you say, “This is never-ending. Could be a year from now, I’ll finish this project. Could be two years from now.” You might never start it. Not even just never finish it, never start it, because you don’t give yourself that time limit.
Boston: So I work very well if I have a deadline, and I’m like, “Okay, well I’m not going to do this for a full semester, one sentence a day. But I have two weeks to write 300 sentences. Okay, great.” That’s something that I can accomplish, as long as I have that deadline, and I have to work to it. You can always push a deadline. I mean, yes and no. If you’re delivering a video for a particular event, it’s going to be different. We’ve done plenty of that.
Boston: But at the same time, I just think that putting yourself on those deadlines, timelines, will always help you to get a project done. And so maybe that’s a bit of advice. If your routine’s been upset, adapt and find a new routine. Adapt and give yourself a deadline to just get to the next thing. Try some things, take some risks. If you have free time, that’s the perfect opportunity to take some risks.
Boston: And risks within reason. Risks might just be a new thing. I’m not saying you have to go spend some money. I’m just saying to try something new.
Charan: I used to, I guess, rely on a routine and what-not. But when I was a kid, when I was about 12 or so years old, my parents got divorced. And that really shook up my routine. It shook up my landscape completely, right? My dad went to a different place, my mom went to a different place. And so half the time, I was with my mom. Now I was with my dad.
Charan: And then my dad decided to move out of state. And so then it was… Summers and Christmas breaks were with him, and then the rest of the school year was with my mom. And I learned then, even then, it’s like life constantly changed. The landscape constantly changed.
Charan: So I realized, if I completely rely on a landscape being a certain way for me to have happiness, then my happiness is going to be very short-lived. It’s going to be as happy as that landscape remains a certain way. But if it changes, then I’m like, “Oh shoot, I’m scrambling, I’m scrambling.”
Charan: But I’m super grateful for that lesson I learned, even as a kid. Because as an adult, getting into acting and seeing how things have changed completely for me, and thinking, “Oh, I was going to… Never go to L.A.” To, “Oh man, I can’t believe I’m in L.A. I would never go back to Utah.” To now, I’m like, “Why am I here, back again?”
Charan: But I love it. I really do love it, and I find that there’s a lot of cool lessons I’ve learned along the way. And I’ve learned not to let my joy be defined by certain circumstance, or a certain level of success. I feel like my success has just been the relationships I’ve made, the friendships I’ve had. Because it kind of boils back down to what you were saying. It’s really fun to make movies with your friends. It really is, and it’s really fun to have acting opportunities and play make-believe still, when I’m almost 40 and you guys are late 30’s and stuff. It’s great to see that we still have that sense of being alive, right? And I think that’s very important.
Charan: I was at a high school reunion, my 20-year high school reunion, a couple years ago. And it was very interesting to see how some people looked almost exactly the way I remembered them. And other people, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, wait. What’s your name tag say?” And they were like, “We used to hang out and talk all the time.” I’m like, “Did we?”
Charan: And so it’s very interesting. And it kind of made me realize, those that retain that sense of aliveness, they look pretty much the same. They were just filled with life and light, and I really love that. And those that I felt like life really kind of beat them up a bit, or kind of really got stuck into the routine of things, it felt like there was a little bit of a deadening of life to them. And it was a cool life lesson to learn, even back then, because I’m like, “Man, I don’t ever want to get old. I really don’t.”
Charan: But I’ve met 70-year-olds before that still have same level of youthfulness, and that young-ness to them. And I think it’s amazing, so it’s fantastic.
Renny and Boston’s Advice to Their Younger Selves
Charan: Okay, the last thing I want to ask you guys, as we wrap things up, is what would you tell your younger selves? Renny, what would you say to that 10-year-old that is getting into acting? What would you tell her right now, having the wisdom that you have?
Renny: Just believe in yourself-
Charan: I love it.
Renny: …and go for it. I think that… I’ve always had a level of… What’s the word? I’m not super scared to take risks necessarily, or… I’ve always been pretty athletic. I love adventure, I love travel, canyoneering, repelling, rock climbing. I don’t have a lot of actual fears, except for snakes. But I think that there can be… You don’t realize how small something you do can have a ripple effect on not just your own life, but other people’s lives.
Renny: So I, a couple years ago, made a conscious decision to kind of give back more, and be more proactive. I think there has been time… Have been times in my life where I’ve been more prone to let other people lead, because they know more, or they’re the director and I’m the actress, or… And I’m sort of tired of that. And I wish I’d figured that out earlier. I wasn’t necessarily the girl who went out and volunteered for a bunch of opportunities in college or something, or had leadership positions or whatever, because I was just focused so hard on getting through.
Renny: But I think just… Even the small service or opportunities that you take on, or even if it’s… Not even service. Just projects that you do can have a huge effect. And I feel like, honestly, inviting you to that table read, now we’re… We could have not ever become friends, but now we’re super great friends because of that.
Renny: And putting yourself out there is hard, and it can be scary. We experience rejection all the time as artists. And I think you just… You do learn to live with that, and I feel like I could have learned that sooner, maybe, is just… It’s okay. It doesn’t matter what other people think. It doesn’t matter. Just give and love and work hard.
Charan: Yeah. That’s awesome.
Boston: For a message from younger Boston, aside from the “Invest some money in Apple and Google, because it’s 1999 and you can do that. It’ll pay out. Yeah, Netflix is going to be big.” No, but ignoring the time travel piece of it, to the me out there right now, it’s just… What’d I say?
Boston: “Don’t. Stop. You can’t. That’s too big. You’re thinking too big. There’s too much… That’s going to cost too much money. That’s too risky. You’re not going to be able to do it. People aren’t going to watch that. People aren’t going to want this. People aren’t going to do that. You can’t think that big. You can’t dream that big.”
Boston: All of those messages are going to come at you all the time constantly, from everyone around you. They are just going to say, “Stop. Don’t. I don’t know how you can live that way. I don’t know how you can… Man, you guys are so creative. I could never do that.” I think you’re going to hear those messages. And just ignore them, because it’s a waste of time to even think that way. Because none of that really empowers you as a human to go out there and just do and accomplish and live and enjoy.
Boston: Because yeah, I can’t think smaller for my first film. I can’t. People are like… I’ve scaled it down. I’ve scaled some things down that aren’t essential. But I can’t think about, “Okay. Well, I’m going to make a movie just with two people out in the wilderness, and it’s free.” I just can’t think that way. And it’s not interesting to me. It’s not what my… The passion, what’s pulling me.
Boston: If you have something that’s driving and pulling you, ignore every negative message around you. Because your passion, your ability to accomplish will just, like a freight train, blow through anything that comes in its way. Whether it’s finances, whether it’s your culture. Whatever it is that feels like it’s holding you back, ignore it. Just ignore it, and move forward through chasing after a dream. Because ultimately, that’s what innovators do. That’s what successful people do, is they have to let go, even of that piece inside of their brain that says, “Yeah, this is not a good idea.”
Boston: If there’s two people arguing, two shoulder angels, and one is saying, “This is a bad idea,” and one is saying, “A good idea,” think about the energy that gives you when you think about it being a good idea. How does it make you feel? Does it make you feel happy? Does it fill you with a little bit of excitement or joy?
Boston: For me, my core energy that… My core value that drives me is excitement, and feeling this exciting kinetic energy. And if I can sit there and go through a project that I’m thinking about doing, and if I feel excited, if I feel that vibration almost, then I know that I can be successful. So even if there’s a part of my own brain that says, “Stop,” just pay attention. Is that giving you that excitement, that “stop”? And if it’s not, turn it off. You don’t need it.
Boston: So that’s my advice to myself, is just… You’re going to get hit with negative messaging. And just ignore it. And that’s not easy, so pat yourself on the back when you’re able to ignore it. And remind yourself that it’s not easy, cut yourself some slack, and just keep going.
Charan: You guys, both incredibly awesome advice. I can’t even add to that or take away from that. It’s amazing. And it is true, right? It’s all about creating your own path, and being alive for yourself.
Charan: There was that quote that was saying, “Don’t do what the world needs. But do what makes you alive, because what the world needs is people that come alive.” Right?
Boston: I love that.
Charan: And it’s such a great quote. And I love that, too, because we deserve to be alive, for us and the rest of the world.
Charan: So thank you guys so much for coming on the Lemonade Stand podcast and sharing your advice. And I’m super excited to see how things work out for you all, and for this film. I’m super excited to work with you guys on the film. I’m super excited to be a part of this adventure. And yeah. I’m really grateful. So thank you guys so much for taking the time.
Renny: Thank you for having us. We love having you around.
Charan: Oh, come on. Come on.
Boston: Thanks so much.
Charan: Yeah. Awesome. Thanks, guys.
Charan: Thanks so much for listening to the Lemonade Stand podcast. And we hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you use to be alerted when we release new episodes. We’d also love to hear your feedback and reviews. And if you or someone you know has an awesome Lemonade Stand story, please reach out to us on social media and let us know. Thanks so much, and have a great day.